Let's Talk: How to Have Better Conversations

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Yeah, you’re absolutely right. It is hard. And there are many better people qualified on how do you measure some of those softer, softer metrics. Yeah, what I find in the conversations I’m have with my team is, okay, once you understand what it is that you that you’re, you have to do or what it is we have to do? How have you done that thing. And spending as much time talking about how you’ve done it as the end state normally gives you a good indication of whether or not you’ve done it in a way that is aligned with the values. And I think that conversation works works for me, and it may work for others. But it’s worked for me in a variety of situations where, when you ask people, how have you done that, you often get a feel from them whether or not they’re happy with the way in which they’ve done it. And if they are, it tends to mean that they have been aligned with their values. And if it’s aligned with their values, you can be pretty sure it’s aligned with the values of the company.

A “good conversation” here, then, is one that promotes understanding. Good conversations are good for you Yeah, absolutely not. And frankly, I really wish that people would not use their gut instinct to make these kinds of decisions that affect people's lives. It makes common sense to think, "Oh, we'd collaborate better if we were all in person all the time, enough of this remote work. Our problem is morale. We don't have cohesiveness in teamwork." That's probably not what's causing lowered morale and the cohesiveness of your team. And so, before you start assuming it's because people are remote, find out if that's really what's behind it, because there's no reason why people working remotely would lead to less cohesion unless you don't know how to work remotely. You may be doing it wrong.

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And I remember I got really angry because my team had missed an important deadline, and I'm sitting there berating them, and one of the people on my team said, they started laughing, and I was like, "I'm super angry right now." And he's like, "Celeste, you shouldn't lead by fear. You are not very convincing angry. No offense, but you are going to have to find another way." And it was an eye-opener for me in terms of how different the perception of us is outside our bodies as opposed to in. And that, you know, I could have taken offense, I suppose it was a negative insult, but I just laughed and was like, "Oh God, I had no idea." He's like, "You kind of look like a Muppet when you're mad." And you know- OK, Neil, I’ll reveal the correct answer later in the programme. During a long career, DJ and BBC radio presenter, Nihal Arthanayake, has had conversations with hundreds of people. Now he’s used these experiences to write a book entitled, ‘Let's Talk: How to Have Better Conversations’. Here Nihal tells another radio presenter, Michael Rosen, of BBC Radio 4’s, Word of Mouth, about the influence of his mother who also loved talking to people in her job as a nurse: Matthew Syed used to terrified of public speaking he's now an in demand speaker with over 150 speaking gigs a year. He says there are 3 essentials to overcome self doubt; a mindset where you're seeking to learn, decent mentoring and not giving up when you hit an obstacle. It’s not simple – the simple thing is to say ‘Oh they’re a racist,’ that’s the easy thing; the more difficult thing is to ask ‘How did you become that person?’ and to try to understand it and not justify it. Read this fascinating book and you'll become a better listener, a better conversationalist and better company' Adam Kay

The widespread use of any kind of text-based communication is degrading the quality of our conversations. And the reason for that is because communication is just not as effective by any measure when you're using text as it is when you're hearing the voice. I think we should really stop defaulting to video conferencing because we now know after the pandemic a lot more about Zoom and all of the others and how uniquely taxing they are for our bodies and our brains. But the voice phone call is so much more efficient, it is so much more honest. We are kinder, we are more compassionate, we are more likely to cooperate and collaborate when we are on the phone and hear somebody else's voices. There's even research that shows it is the sound of the voice itself that allows us to recognize someone else as a human being. Modern workers have no idea how to function as a healthy team. That is just the truth. And so, if you just are training them in how to be team members, in other words saying, "Listen, let's learn how to collaborate and coordinate, and we don't care if you like each other because it doesn't matter. We're not going to force you to like anybody, you just have to be respectful and collaborate well." That's going to give them all kinds of benefits. But banning those conversations is just going to send morale straight into the toilet and frankly increase your turnover rate.

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Nihal Arthanayake is author of Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations You highlight how, in meetings with loyalists, Mary McAleese spoke about being “good neighbours” rather than discussing politics. Is that the key to a healthy conversation: focusing on common ground? in a conversation, look at the people around you like an orchestra. Your job is to give each part a chance to play - the strings, percussion, brass, and woodwind. That social attitudes in the modern world are polarised, and defined in the words of James Haskell as ‘I’m offended, prove me wrong’ I have had conversations with people in which they have literally talked about how smart I am after it's over, and all I did was craft questions, that's it. But it seems counterintuitive, but frankly, the more you worry and the more you focus on the impression that you're making and coming off as smart and coming off as self-assured, the less...let me put it this way, think about the definition of cool. When you were in high school the people that were cool are really the people who don't care. Those are not the people you want to date when you're 25, but in high school that's what's cool. So, think about it that way. Try to be cool in that, not that you don't care, but that you're not worried about how you're coming off. What you're worried about is making that other person shine, giving them a chance to shine. Brilliant, and absolutely, I think broadband is gonna be key to everyone’s world at the moment. And I’m sure many of us listening today, or many of our listeners have probably experienced the drop out so can actually vouch and be with you on that journey and and wish you all the best at bringing that connectivity and pushing your speeds higher. So thanks, Richard.

Good conversation brings people together, unlike tittle-tattle - talk about other people's lives that is usually unkind, disapproving, or untrue. So, do you think body language has anything to do with that as well? And I'm thinking of, you mentioned that video conferencing, it can be very taxing at the same time without the video, you don't see someone's facial expressions, things like that. And then as well, you also hear arguments right now for people to return to office that, if we're going to collaborate, we need to be together in person, we need to be reading each other's body language, looking at each other's faces. Do you think that that really matters to the quality of the conversation or not so much? And I just would really wish people would be evidence-based rather than gut-based. Your gut is going to fool you, it's going to steer you in the wrong direction all the time. And so, look into it, find out, maybe it is, it's possible there's a company where the remote work is not working for them for one reason or another, but that's not necessarily the case. You can have incredible collaboration and cooperation even if people are spread all over the world, you just have to do it right. Read this fascinating book and you'll become a better listener, a better conversationalist and better company' Adam Kay'A brilliant book on the art of conversation' Matt Haig'A compulsory book for these divided times' Sathnam Sanghera'An intriguing exploration of the importance of a proper chinwag' Sara Cox'A terrific book from a terrific broadcaster. So conversation can build bridges, and it is proven through history that conversation has, and that conversation can be seen as an art form, and that's one of the things that I want us to understand – it's not just tittle tattle, it's not just shouting at each other on social media, it's not two politicians talking over each other.

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That actively listening more, providing the speaker with your full and undivided attention, and talking less yourself, is key to holding good conversations The expertise trap is such a danger, and it leads to group think, it leads to all kinds of really, really bad decisions. So, the way to get around that is to constantly approach your team members with curiosity and understanding that even if you held a job 15 years ago, you have no idea what that job entails now and here's this person right in front of you who's in that job and could enlighten you and really help you out. And if you approach your conversations that way, you will never be short of topics. Stop lecturing. It might make you feel good, but it only makes you feel good for a very short span of time. And it definitely doesn't make the other person feel good. Ask open-ended questions Conversations are broken. And while effective dialogue is supposed to lead to greater fulfilment in our personal and professional lives, all the scientific evidence points towards us sharing fewer interactions than previous generations. From ever decreasing face-to-face meetings to echo chambers online, we no longer have the necessary tools to talk to each other. Absolutely. So with regards to having sort of bonus conversations, which is a much nicer phrase, I know that I’d much rather be having bonus conversations than performance management conversations. Would you see that almost on a monthly basis, or adopted by organisations and teams on a weekly basis, monthly basis? annual basis? What What was the cadence of those conversations look like?